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	<title>Comments on: A little more conversation with dialog</title>
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	<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/</link>
	<description>helping you implement HTML5 today</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:04:25 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Comment utiliser les listes&#160;de définitions&#160;? &#124; Les intégristes</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-2104</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment utiliser les listes&#160;de définitions&#160;? &#124; Les intégristes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-2104</guid>
		<description>[...] de définitions ne doivent pas servir à mettre en forme un dialogue, puisqu&#8217;initialement la balise : &lt;dialog&gt; devait servir à cet effet. Cette balise ayant été retirée en septembre dernier sans être (encore ?) remplacée. On reste [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] de définitions ne doivent pas servir à mettre en forme un dialogue, puisqu&#8217;initialement la balise : &lt;dialog&gt; devait servir à cet effet. Cette balise ayant été retirée en septembre dernier sans être (encore ?) remplacée. On reste [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clamcake Jones</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-2077</link>
		<dc:creator>Clamcake Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-2077</guid>
		<description>What to do with threaded conversations?  Google Wave or any bulletin board (bb) / forum software, out of the box, provides threaded conversations.  Were threaded conversations not anticipated?  They have been a mainstay of out of the box bb / forum software since before 2004.

HTML5 seems to be very publisher centric with it&#039;s &quot;article&quot;, &quot;sections&quot;, and &quot;aside&quot; tags.  It does not appear to have fully thought through an actual human interaction with the &quot;article&quot; or the other humans and their interactions.

With HTML5, Is there any means for keeping track of an entire conversation and it&#039;s divergences (threads)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What to do with threaded conversations?  Google Wave or any bulletin board (bb) / forum software, out of the box, provides threaded conversations.  Were threaded conversations not anticipated?  They have been a mainstay of out of the box bb / forum software since before 2004.</p>
<p>HTML5 seems to be very publisher centric with it&#8217;s &#8220;article&#8221;, &#8220;sections&#8221;, and &#8220;aside&#8221; tags.  It does not appear to have fully thought through an actual human interaction with the &#8220;article&#8221; or the other humans and their interactions.</p>
<p>With HTML5, Is there any means for keeping track of an entire conversation and it&#8217;s divergences (threads)?</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software</a></p>
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		<title>By: davux</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-2038</link>
		<dc:creator>davux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-2038</guid>
		<description>When it comes to styling &lt;dialog/&gt; (or a &lt;dl/&gt;, actually), it&#039;s a problem that the only association between an author and what they say is the order. This prevents e.g. each intervention to be enclosed in a box. I think the idea of markup languages is to associate elements by enclosing them in a common container element, &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; by relying on them being siblings.

One (semantically and practically) sensible way of describing a dialog would be something like:
&lt;dialog&gt;
&lt;turn&gt;
&lt;author&gt;Bob&lt;/author&gt;&lt;discourse&gt;Hi&lt;/discourse&gt;
&lt;/turn&gt;
&lt;turn&gt;
&lt;author&gt;Mary&lt;/author&gt;&lt;discourse&gt;Hello Bob.&lt;/discourse&gt;
&lt;/turn&gt;
...
&lt;/dialog&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to styling &lt;dialog/&gt; (or a &lt;dl/&gt;, actually), it&#8217;s a problem that the only association between an author and what they say is the order. This prevents e.g. each intervention to be enclosed in a box. I think the idea of markup languages is to associate elements by enclosing them in a common container element, <strong>not</strong> by relying on them being siblings.</p>
<p>One (semantically and practically) sensible way of describing a dialog would be something like:<br />
&lt;dialog&gt;<br />
&lt;turn&gt;<br />
&lt;author&gt;Bob&lt;/author&gt;&lt;discourse&gt;Hi&lt;/discourse&gt;<br />
&lt;/turn&gt;<br />
&lt;turn&gt;<br />
&lt;author&gt;Mary&lt;/author&gt;&lt;discourse&gt;Hello Bob.&lt;/discourse&gt;<br />
&lt;/turn&gt;<br />
&#8230;<br />
&lt;/dialog&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Making a case for the dialog element in HTML 5 &#124; The Pink Crow</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-1131</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Making a case for the dialog element in HTML 5 &#124; The Pink Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-1131</guid>
		<description>[...] this was the suggestion for how to use &lt;dialog&gt;:  &lt;dialog&gt; &lt;dt&gt;Brenda&lt;/dt&gt; &lt;dd&gt;I love Coco Wheats!&lt;/dd&gt; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this was the suggestion for how to use &lt;dialog&gt;:  &lt;dialog&gt; &lt;dt&gt;Brenda&lt;/dt&gt; &lt;dd&gt;I love Coco Wheats!&lt;/dd&gt; [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A squirrel has turned me into a cartoon : akamike</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-1093</link>
		<dc:creator>A squirrel has turned me into a cartoon : akamike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-1093</guid>
		<description>[...] comic is in response to the recent removal of, and failed alternative solution to, dialog. I wrote about dialog on HTML5Doctor not too long before this change, and was not best pleased by the replacement. Now, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] comic is in response to the recent removal of, and failed alternative solution to, dialog. I wrote about dialog on HTML5Doctor not too long before this change, and was not best pleased by the replacement. Now, [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bruce</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Yes, it would be entirely appropriate for Q&amp;A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it would be entirely appropriate for Q&amp;A</p>
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		<title>By: Stephane</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-901</guid>
		<description>I was thinking of using &lt;dialog&gt; to markup a Q and A, wondering if it would be a good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking of using &lt;dialog&gt; to markup a Q and A, wondering if it would be a good idea.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Robinson</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-721</guid>
		<description>Blimey! You guys sure have a lot to say :)

@John Holdun: True, but their story is still tragic!

@Arlo: The short answer is no, &lt;dialog&gt; is not suitable for comments. Long reasoning:

1. An article and its comments are not necessarily a dialogue. Many comments are likely to be simple statements that do not interact intimately with the contents of the article or other comments, thus initiating no conversation. Many articles are also unlikely to be for the purpose of generating discussion, but are written to make a point or document an experience. They are closer to a monologue than a dialogue. If they did provoke discussion, you can&#039;t place the article within a &lt;dialog&gt; without losing the use of more appropriate tags like &lt;article&gt;.

2. If you consider comments with threading, you can&#039;t nest dialogs within each other. The only two elements that can be immediate children of &lt;dialog&gt; are &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt;. You can&#039;t nest a dialog within those two either, since the extended conversation is not a name or something that the top of the thread stated. However, it would be acceptable if it was similar to the Twitter example, where I have removed the thread from everything else surrounding it (i.e. other unconnected tweets, or replies to other people&#039;s replies).

The specification recommends articles for comments. You can read more about implementing this as part of Bruce&#039;s &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://html5doctor.com/designing-a-blog-with-html5/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Designing a blog with html5&lt;/a&gt;&quot; article.

@ysbreker &amp; Bastien: As Bastien said, &lt;dl&gt; has now been redefined as an association list. We&#039;ll cover this further on HTML5Doctor at some point in the future. Within &lt;dialog&gt; , &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; are interpreted as &quot;name of speaker&quot; and &quot;discourse&quot; (or &quot;quote&quot;). If it helps you can think of &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; as &quot;Dialog Talker&quot; and &quot;Dialog Discourse&quot;, respectively.

@Bruce Lawson: I agree, &lt;blockquote&gt; and &lt;cite&gt; would be more appropriate had &lt;cite&gt; not been redefined. That is a very interesting article on the subject, one that anyone else reading this article should take a look at.

@Rachel Nabors: That&#039;s the spirit! :)

@Florent V. (Wow, That&#039;s quite the response!) and Steven Rossi: As Bruce said, before it was redefined it would have been acceptable to use &lt;blockquote&gt; and &lt;cite&gt; to mark-up dialogue. I think the &lt;dialog&gt; tag would have been a useful addition for grouping those two elements, and even though that is not the case the current state is quite similar. Most likely, the use of &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; within &lt;dialog&gt; is for backwards compatibility, since people were previously recommended to use &lt;dl&gt;. I agree with Florent&#039;s comments on &lt;dl&gt;, there are many use cases that &lt;dl&gt; suits but really should have their own element like dialogue has received. I would like to revisit &lt;dl&gt; in an article here, so I&#039;ll keep what you have said in mind and hopefully see you there for more on this ;)

@John Faulds: Aren&#039;t most terms in HTML/CSS in concession to US user (For example, color)? ;) A number of different names were reviewed and I believe the reasoning for not using dialogue was because it might be too confusing.

@Wolf: Ignoring the concept of separating content from presentation, you are right that this can cause problems (though, perhaps not in saying that *most* uses are affected. I would say that most IM applications present the name first, then the discourse). Do you think it would be better if it was up to the developer to pick an order, provided all other tags within the &lt;dialog&gt; followed the same ordering (all dt before dd, or all dd before dt)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blimey! You guys sure have a lot to say <img src='http://html5doctor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@John Holdun: True, but their story is still tragic!</p>
<p>@Arlo: The short answer is no, &lt;dialog&gt; is not suitable for comments. Long reasoning:</p>
<p>1. An article and its comments are not necessarily a dialogue. Many comments are likely to be simple statements that do not interact intimately with the contents of the article or other comments, thus initiating no conversation. Many articles are also unlikely to be for the purpose of generating discussion, but are written to make a point or document an experience. They are closer to a monologue than a dialogue. If they did provoke discussion, you can&#8217;t place the article within a &lt;dialog&gt; without losing the use of more appropriate tags like &lt;article&gt;.</p>
<p>2. If you consider comments with threading, you can&#8217;t nest dialogs within each other. The only two elements that can be immediate children of &lt;dialog&gt; are &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt;. You can&#8217;t nest a dialog within those two either, since the extended conversation is not a name or something that the top of the thread stated. However, it would be acceptable if it was similar to the Twitter example, where I have removed the thread from everything else surrounding it (i.e. other unconnected tweets, or replies to other people&#8217;s replies).</p>
<p>The specification recommends articles for comments. You can read more about implementing this as part of Bruce&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://html5doctor.com/designing-a-blog-with-html5/" rel="nofollow">Designing a blog with html5</a>&#8221; article.</p>
<p>@ysbreker &#038; Bastien: As Bastien said, &lt;dl&gt; has now been redefined as an association list. We&#8217;ll cover this further on HTML5Doctor at some point in the future. Within &lt;dialog&gt; , &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; are interpreted as &#8220;name of speaker&#8221; and &#8220;discourse&#8221; (or &#8220;quote&#8221;). If it helps you can think of &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; as &#8220;Dialog Talker&#8221; and &#8220;Dialog Discourse&#8221;, respectively.</p>
<p>@Bruce Lawson: I agree, &lt;blockquote&gt; and &lt;cite&gt; would be more appropriate had &lt;cite&gt; not been redefined. That is a very interesting article on the subject, one that anyone else reading this article should take a look at.</p>
<p>@Rachel Nabors: That&#8217;s the spirit! <img src='http://html5doctor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Florent V. (Wow, That&#8217;s quite the response!) and Steven Rossi: As Bruce said, before it was redefined it would have been acceptable to use &lt;blockquote&gt; and &lt;cite&gt; to mark-up dialogue. I think the &lt;dialog&gt; tag would have been a useful addition for grouping those two elements, and even though that is not the case the current state is quite similar. Most likely, the use of &lt;dt&gt; and &lt;dd&gt; within &lt;dialog&gt; is for backwards compatibility, since people were previously recommended to use &lt;dl&gt;. I agree with Florent&#8217;s comments on &lt;dl&gt;, there are many use cases that &lt;dl&gt; suits but really should have their own element like dialogue has received. I would like to revisit &lt;dl&gt; in an article here, so I&#8217;ll keep what you have said in mind and hopefully see you there for more on this <img src='http://html5doctor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@John Faulds: Aren&#8217;t most terms in HTML/CSS in concession to US user (For example, color)? <img src='http://html5doctor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  A number of different names were reviewed and I believe the reasoning for not using dialogue was because it might be too confusing.</p>
<p>@Wolf: Ignoring the concept of separating content from presentation, you are right that this can cause problems (though, perhaps not in saying that *most* uses are affected. I would say that most IM applications present the name first, then the discourse). Do you think it would be better if it was up to the developer to pick an order, provided all other tags within the &lt;dialog&gt; followed the same ordering (all dt before dd, or all dd before dt)?</p>
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		<title>By: El tag HTML5 dialog : Blogografia</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>El tag HTML5 dialog : Blogografia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-718</guid>
		<description>[...] ejemplo basado en Twitter y sacado de html5Doctor permite visualizar como debería ser la portada de Twitter en [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ejemplo basado en Twitter y sacado de html5Doctor permite visualizar como debería ser la portada de Twitter en [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: El tag HTML5 dialog &#124; aNieto2K</title>
		<link>http://html5doctor.com/a-little-more-conversation-with-dialog/comment-page-1/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>El tag HTML5 dialog &#124; aNieto2K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://html5doctor.com/?p=707#comment-717</guid>
		<description>[...] ejemplo basado en Twitter y sacado de html5Doctor permite visualizar como debería ser la portada de Twitter en HTML5.     &#8592; Short URL, plugin [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ejemplo basado en Twitter y sacado de html5Doctor permite visualizar como debería ser la portada de Twitter en HTML5.     &larr; Short URL, plugin [...]</p>
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