HTML5 Doctor » Questions

Your Questions Answered #10

Richard Clark — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:45:00 +0000

The clinic is getting busy with more HTML5 ailments. This week, we’ll cover using sections within a footer, vs. Flash security, why HTML5 elements are treated as inline, using offline with storage, and marking up block quotes.

Footer with sections

Tommie asked:

Hi, I’ll get to the point right away. I want to use, lets say 3 section elements inside a footer each floating left and inside each of this sections I have some standard information. Is this the right way to go, or should I put my section elements outside the footer and only put copyright text etc. inside the footer?

Thanks!

You could use a

within

. but
is a sectioning root anyway
is flow content and can contain sectioning content. If you want them to appear in the outline within the footer, then it makes perfect sense to do as you suggest.

See more in Jack’s article on the
element. There are also some more examples in the spec.

Cheers, Rich

vs. Flash (security and copyright)

John asked:

I’m seeing lots of opinions that the canvas element might free us of the Adobe Flash monopoly, but what mechanisms can we use to protect our works when using straight HTML and JavaScript?

Right now I’m thinking about simple flash games, but I’m sure this is a concern for others wanting to use (free) HTML methods to perform functions now reserved more for flash.

Thanks for any input.

I’m not sure of any security mechanisms that we can use to protect content. It isn’t really any different than an image or any other type of resource. Having said that, decompilers can circumvent some of Flash’s security measures as well, so you may not be much worse off using .

If we come across anything, we’ll be sure to let you know.

Cheers, Rich

HTML5 tags inline?

Tami asked:

So, I’ve been experimenting with the new HTML5 elements, and one frustration I have is understanding the native display of the new elements, and how it works within the document flow. So far, experimenting with them has shown them to be very unpredictable. At best, they’re kind of behaving like a bastard span. They seem to be behaving like inline elements but that seems like it is wrong. In some cases, setting to display: block gives the expected behavior, but on the footer tag, it’s not interacting with floated elements properly.

So, are these new elements inline or are browsers still just trying to catch up? I tried looking in in the HTML5 working draft spec, but so far I am not understanding the way its written (HTML4’s specs clearly spelled out whether an element was display or inline).

Here’s an article from my personal blog that I wrote a while ago describing why browsers treat HTML5 elements as inline.

Thanks, Bruce.

Offline + Storage

Dear Doctor, I’m trying to work out if HTML5 will be able to do the job that I want. I have a number of documents (PDF, PPT, etc.) that I want to share with people in my team. These documents may change from time to time. Also, the people may not always be connected online.

Would it be possible to “cache” documents in an offline database in the browser so that when they are not connected they can still view them but when they are, they get the latest versions (which also refresh the cache)?

That way I can do a fairly pretty interface for sorting these documents so that they can easily find them.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

You can, but I would strongly encourage you to think carefully about whether it’s worth it.

You can include these “assets” in the manifest, which will make the files available to the offline applications (note that this isn’t storage, just caching, which is what you’re after).

The problem is that when the visitor first hits the page with the manifest — which contains all the PDFs, PPTs, etc. — it will download all of these files. This is the bit that I’d encourage you to consider carefully. To compound that, I believe there’s a 5MB limit on the cache, so you might run into problems if you’re trying to cache more than that.

I’ve not covered offline cache on HTML5 Doctor yet (though it’s on the list), but I have described the process on my 24ways article.

If there are new versions of the cached files, you need to change the contents of the manifest — e.g., include a version number, which will trigger a download of all the assets again. Not ideal, but that’s the current situation.

Hope that helps a bit, Remy

Correct markup with blockquote

Phil asked:

Hi, in HTML 4.0 Strict and XHTML 1.0 Strict, text inside a blockquote element is required to be nested inside another block-level element, e.g. p.

In HTML5 that requirement seems to have been relaxed, as the following element validates successfully:
This is a blockquote.
The HTML5 spec uses the p element in the usage examples, but does not mention whether it is required.

Can you please confirm if this requirement has now been deprecated?

Great question. As I expected, this validates:



blockquote test
Tiger tiger burning bright

We double-checked with the WHATWG mailing list and confirmed that

can contain ‘flow’ content (i.e., text, paragraphs, etc.).

To summarise, it would be valid not to further mark up content within a
, but authors are encouraged to use a
(or other more appropriate element).

Bruce

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions! If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

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Your Questions Answered #10 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on July 9, 2010.

Your Questions Answered 9

Richard Clark — Fri, 14 May 2010 14:15:57 +0000

The Doctor is in with another round of patient questions about HTML5. This week, we’ll cover offline viewing on requests, the drag-and-drop API, using href on any element, the

element, and headings.

Offline viewing on requests

Johan asked:

It is possible to let Firefox 3.5/3.6 save a page for offline viewing with the manifest file?
In that case Firefox asks for permission to save the site the same second you arrive – not very user-friendly.

Is it possible to send the save-it-locally request via Javascript on a click?

Basically I want a link/button which will fire the request – and not on document load.

While it isn’t possible to make Firefox 3.5/3.6 save a page for offline viewing with the manifest file, there is a way to do this. It all depends on how you write the “save-it-locally request” code. You have two options:

If you want to store an arbitrary document that is not explicitly listed in your manifest, you could run an Ajax request for that document and store its contents in localStorage. When you want to view that document, load it from localStorage and overlay it on the existing page.
Dynamically manage a manifest file for individual users, so that if a user requests a new file that isn’t in their manifest, register this on the server side and add it to the manifest — which is bespoke to this specific user — on the fly.

I’m not sure what you’re seeing with regards to the permissions error. When I test the manifest (offline **cache**), it doesn’t ask twice.

Note: you asked about Firefox 3.5 — the offline manifest doesn’t work properly at all in this version.

Thanks, Remy

Question about dragging

Marc asked:

Evening,

I’m trying to get my head around the drag and drop (DnD) possibilities of HTML5. I have a “simple” task: Read the content of a XML file, using JavaScript, and do some manipulations of he XML. Without the use of server side scripts.

I tried my way with Google, but apart from people complaining about the DnD specs, I wasn’t able to find much insightful informations.

Can you point me toward resources to understand the DnD possibilities of HTML5?

Thank you Doctor, a French canadian HTML5 fan

Absolutely! There’s actually an HTML5 Doctor article covering native drag-and-drop. It also includes links for further reading and related posts (such as accessibility experiments).

I hope that helps.

Cheers, Remy

About the `href` on any element

Luan asked:

I’ve heard a long ago that href would work in any tag, such as a
or a h1, even a div and others… but I don’t see anything about this in the last days. Do you know if this is going to work?

That was in XHTML2 (on which the W3C have now stopped work).

The HTML5 equivalent is to wrap an around the other tags. It’s called block-level linking, and we’ve written an article about it.

Cheers, Bruce

W3C Validator for the
element

Fjpoblam asked:

I have a (prospective) structure containing 8 figures: each an image with a caption. My goal is an image gallery, each image clickable toward an individual htm file containing a slide show. (In html4 I structured each “figure” as a div: figure seemed ideal for the task.)

Problem is, I tried to follow the *validator* hint with a dd for the image and a dt for the caption (each surrounded by an a). Upon doing so, the validator pops up an error. When I try a straight image with a legend, it is also rejected for want of a dd and an optional dt.

What gives? Do you have a hint? Or better, simply, point me doofus to the correct doc so’s you’ll “teach a man to fish”.

I’m not sure if the validator is up to date or not, but you shouldn’t be using

anymore. Please use

See our article on the

and

elements for more.

Also see our glossary for more examples.

Cheers, Rich

Headings

Thomas asked:

Dear Doctors,

you covered the new header tag in an article. The header tag should contain a heading element, like h1-6. So far so good, but how do I structure my headings further on. E.g. I’ve got this:
	
		My major heading
		Subheading
		Abstract text...
	
	... lorem ipsum ....
	Heading within my article
	... dolor sit amet ...
	Subheading in my article
Which heading-level would be appropriate in my example? h1 because it starts again? or h3 because it continues?

Thank you

If the first is a new subheading and not related to the

already there, then would be an
. Then would be an
if it is a subheading of the above
.

However, if you’re splitting the article into sections, then you could use an
each time. See our article on the section element for more.

Thanks, Tom

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions! If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

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Your Questions Answered #8

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Your Questions Answered 9 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on May 14, 2010.

Your Questions Answered #8

Richard Clark — Wed, 05 May 2010 13:00:55 +0000

We’re back with more of your questions (and our answers) about HTML5. In this article, we’ll discuss using a

at the top of your markup, how to skip to certain parts of a video, styling form elements and attributes, and more.

HTML5
on top

David asked:

Hi!

I wonder if it possible to put the footer on top such as www.perfectfools.com with HTML5 and still make the HTML validate.

Thanks a lot and best regards!

David

HTML elements should always describe their content, so if you think that

is most suitable for your content, then you’re absolutely entitled to use it. Despite its name,

’s position is in no way restricted — visually or ordinally — within a document.

Cheers, Rich

Skip to certain parts of a video file

John Paul asked:

Hello

supposing I have a very long video file in an accompanying video element, without using the controls, how do I skip to certain time stages through the API? Much as one would on a DVD menu, for example.

Apologies if this has been asked already.

JP

You can achieve this using JavaScript and data attributes. Check out these articles from Bruce Lawson and Patrick Lauke from Opera. They’ve used data attributes to add subtitles, but you could just as easily use the attributes to jump to specific parts of a video.

For example, set data-start and data-end attributes on your element. You can then use JavaScript to read the attribute values, set the current position of the video using the currentTime attribute, start playing the video via the play() method, and even stop playing the video by listening for the timeupdate event and stopping the video with pause() once it’s reached a specified time. See the spec for the HTMLMediaElement object for more details.

Cheers, Rich

In addition to this, the recent addition of the track element will make this more easily achievable. We will cover the track element in more detail soon.

s within navigation links

Benjamin asked:

Hey,

I’m currently doing up the new version of my website, and decided to do it in HTML5.

One area I’m confused about is whether or not for navigation links I should be using a h1 or h2 element.

For example:
    
        Actions
    
    
        Sitemap
        Login
        Search
        Enquire
    
Should those span.title elements be wrapped in a h2? My thoughts on why this would be required is for an outline, as navigation should appear in the outline right?

Thanks a bunch.

In theory, yes, navigation should appear in the outline. I personally don’t think it should require a heading, and I know there have been requests to the developers of the outline algorithm to make

show as a ‘Navigation’ element rather than ‘untitled section’.

If you want to use a heading within your

element, using an

would be fine. You don’t really need the

element in there too. The outline would be calculated correctly without it. With current browser implementations, however, I don’t think it would make much difference if you used an

.

You don’t need the elements in the

s. They aren’t required in the outline unless they’re providing a table of contents for the document.

I hope that answers your question. We plan to write an article regarding outlining soon.

Cheers, Rich

Styling supported HTML5 form elements and attributes

Mike asked:

First off, I wanted to say I really appreciate the service this site is doing. I have found this site to be a very valuable resource and is always the first place I look when I have a question about implementing HTML5.

How do I style/edit/change the UI generated feedback for the new HTML5 form elements and attributes. For example, In Opera, is there a standard CSS notation to style the error message so that it doesn’t necessarily show up under the field in red? Where in the DOM is it inserted? Is the message for a required field customizable? Finally, is this information specified in the HTML5 spec or are the implementation details left up to the browsers?

There is currently no way to use CSS to style error messages. As the HTML5 spec isn’t finished yet, it’s a bit early to start specifying new CSS.

The HTML5 spec defines no UI requirements regarding how browsers should display messages.

You can override a browser’s default behaviour with JavaScript. I’m not a scripter, but I reckon you would need to attach an event handler to the error event and have the handler cancel the default action and show a custom error message. I think that as long as you call evt.preventDefault() within the event handler, it should prevent showing the default error message. Then you can add an element into the DOM and style it as you wish, with the default error handling as a fallback for those without JavaScript. If anyone gives this a go and gets it working, we’d be very interested to see the results.

Ta, Bruce

Section headers

Tibor asked:

Hi. I would like to know, how to use section’s headers. Is this code correct?
	header 1


	header 2
or I have to use header element inside every aside, article, section etc.
	
    	header 1
	


	
    	header 2
	
Tibor

Your first example is correct. You only need

to group items within a header. If the header contains only a single

–
element, you don’t need to wrap it in a
.

Thanks, Bruce

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions! If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

Related Posts:

Your Questions Answered #5

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Your Questions Answered 9

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Your Questions Answered #8 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on May 5, 2010.

Your Questions Answered #7

Richard Clark — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:10:51 +0000

Here we are again with another round of patient questions about HTML5. In this article, we’ll be covering AJAX, the eternal question of

, our old friend Internet Explorer, how to mark up multiple blocks of content in a sidebar, and using

with .

HTML and AJAX

Arie asked:

I’m still learning about html5 and javascript, I’m wondering how html5 makes doing a lot of the things currently done in ajax and javascript more simple. Is it by providing things like the canvas that unify ideas?

Certain parts of HTML5 will indeed simplify or reduce the need for JavaScript. One such area of improvement is Web Forms 2.0, which will handle client-side form validation in the browser and provide new input types (like that checks for a valid email address). Of course, you’ll still need to validate your forms on the server, but at least the browser will catch the most obvious mistakes before the user actually submits the form.

Other parts of HTML5, like Web SQL Databases and , are essentially JavaScript APIs. They may not cut down on your need for JavaScript, but they do provide a consistent interface to some powerful functionality and will enable your application or site to do more things within (or outside of) the browser.

Cheers, Rich

or
?

Paul asked:

Hello

I see you are using divs on your website, I thought divs should be replaced by more semantic tags such as sections or article. what did I miss?

Thanks

Hi Paul,

Just like with HTML4, you shouldn’t use

s or s where another, more precise element would fit the bill. But for grouping arbitrary content,

s and s remain the way to go.

Thanks, Bruce

HTML5 and IE6

Adam asked:

Greetings HTML5 Doctor,

Is it at all possible to have a HTML5 layout while 30% of our users are running IE6? We are an IT company and our website is very large so having separate versions is completely impractical. HTML5 would allow us to move on and keep our markup a lot simpler but with no concrete guarantees regarding universal support is HTML5 ever going to get off the ground within 5 years while not having to resort to javascript solutions?

Simply change the doctype and you’ll be writing HTML5! If you want to use new elements, however, you’ll need to use JavaScript to support them (for all versions of IE up to IE8). The best place to start? Read Remy’s article on How to get HTML5 working in IE and Firefox 2.

I think we’re in a position to do something about this. By using the new doctype, block-level links, and new form input types (that degrade gracefully), we can start promoting HTML5 right now.

Cheers, Rich

Multiple blocks in a sidebar

Bart asked:

On my page (revora.net) I have a sidebar with content that I deem appropriate for the aside element. The sidebar contains several blocks of content. I’ve currently made the whole bar aside and made the blocks div. Is this correct, or should I do it the other way around?

It sounds like your first approach is correct. The

s might be

s or maybe

elements though, depending on their content. I suggest you read our article (and the comments) on the

element.

Thanks, Tom

Header with

Diego asked:

Hi,

This structure is right?
   
       
           Foo Bar
           Baz Bat Qux
       
   
   lorem ipsum
What I mean is, if I have a HEADER with just 2 H(n) I need to put these into a HGROUP ? Or… I can remove the HEADER and leave just a HGROUP? What’s the better solutions for it?

Thanks for all,

Diego Tres

What you have is correct. Basically, in the document outline, you will only see “Foo Bar” as the heading for that section. “Baz Bat Qux” will be hidden from the outline.

You don’t have to use a

within your

or an within your

. Similarly, you don’t have to use a

around your .

To summarise, the best solution (if you don’t require the

to appear in the document outline) is what you’ve already got.

Cheers, Rich

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions! If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

Share and Save:

Your Questions Answered #7 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on April 20, 2010.

Your Questions Answered #6

Richard Clark — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 14:30:59 +0000

We’re back with another round of patient questions about HTML5. In this article, we’ll discuss using multiple

s, audio codecs, microformats, post bylines, and the element.

Using multiple
s

Bnonn asked:

I’m unsure of how `h1` is supposed to be used now that pages can be divided into sections and articles. In (X)HTML4, a page was basically a page, and so you only had one `h1` element: the top level heading for the page. I’m not even sure if that was a requirement of HTML4, or if it was just a de facto standard, but it made sense.

Now, however, there are any number of possible sections and articles per page; each of which may contain any number of heading elements (and one of those might be inside a `header` element). Given that `h1` is a top-level heading, it seems as if each section and/or article should have one, in addition to the page-level `h1`. However, this contradicts what I know of accepted usage, so I’m confused about the way in which I should be marking up headings in HTML5. It doesn’t seem right to start headings in a `section`, for instance, with `h2`, because then…where’s the top-level heading for that element? But it doesn’t seem right to start them with `h1`, because that element in current web usage has more “power” than warrants its use there.

There is also SEO to wonder about. Even if using multiple `h1` elements is right, I wouldn’t want to be penalized for it by Google. So what’s the story with that?

Any help is much appreciated.

Regards,

Bnonn

Basically, you can use multiple

s in order to shape the document outline. So an

within a

will be treated like an

(if it is a nested

). If that

(and only that

) is aggregated elsewhere on the web, however, it will fit seamlessly into that external document’s outline. This means that your original

could be treated as an

, or
as appropriate.

I hope that makes sense! Bruce’s article on the section element touches on this, and we also hope to talk more about document outlines in the future.

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. Multiple
s in HTML4 are perfectly legal, but seldom used.

Audio Codecs

Adam asked:

Hello,

I’ve got a query about the issues regarding what codecs to use for the audio tag. I don’t quite get why Firefox won’t support mp3. Surely the browser calls on the codecs present on the operating system, not within the browser, so how are the licensing issues a problem to the browsers if they are simply leaving what is already present (and in theory already licensed)?

I fully admit that I am no lawyer. It just seems very odd the line of argument Mozilla has taken.

Adam Wilcox

I’m not sure why they’ve taken that stance, but I know that Mozilla only plans to support Ogg and Apple are keen to push MP3 and MP4, so we’re at stalemate. Because of this, discussion of specific codecs has been removed from the spec altogether.

Although not related to audio, see this article I wrote about YouTube and Vimeo supporting HTML5 video. It explains a little about codecs.

Sorry I can’t be of more help.

Rich

Since writing this reply there has been a lot more talk over codecs for both video and audio since Microsoft announced they would be supporting H.264 in IE9. We’ll cover this in more detail soon.

hCards

Ken asked:

How does html 5 deal with hCards and microformats in general? Specifically, can you have more than one hCard per page? As I understand it currently, having more than one is problematic. I’m asking now because of the treatment “footer” and “aside” has gotten, i.e. they are context sensitive to their “article” or “section” unless top-level, then applied to the page. Also, the use of scoped on style tags: hCards should be updated in a like manner for html 5.

Thanks for hearing me out. I don’t know if this is the appropriate place for this question, but as html 5 is much more useful, I thought maybe a post is in order

Also, “article”’s impact on the hAtom microformat makes for an interesting article, don’t ya think?

We touched upon microformats in our articles on the

and elements, but we’ll try to cover more soon (possibly in an article on the

element).

I haven’t heard that having more than one hCard is problematic. I’ve certainly never had any issues doing that. If you check out the source code on the homepage of HTML5Doctor, you’ll see we’ve used multiple hCards — one for each author’s name associated with a post.

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers,

Rich

Article bylines

Eric asked:

I tweeted to you guys a few days ago (@ericdfields), wondering what you recommend for bylines for blog posts. Bylines, borrowing a newspaper term, would be the ‘Posted by SoandSo on Nov 1, 2010′ copy you find under the article of your typical blog post.

To me, they seem like something of an ‘aside’ for the header of the document.

I don’t know if its perfectly valid, but here’s the test case I whipped up.

Thanks in advance for any insight!

In my opinion, they’re header or footer information, so I do:


  
    Foo
    Bar
  
  Posted by Bruce on 1st November

Thanks, Bruce

How to use with a date in astrology

Dear HTML5Doctors,

I was confused in how to using the time tag with the Astrology date. For example if I have a chunk of content like this:

ARIES: 13 Apr – 14 May

how can I use attribute “datetime” to explain the format of that date?
ARIES: 13 Apr - 14 May
The year of birth is not fixed, please advice me some solutions about this.

Thank you,

radiz

Hi Radiz,

The time element is for one specific day, not a range or “imprecise” date. So you can’t use it for “13 April.” You need to use it for a specific “13 April” and give a year. For more, see our article on the element.

Thanks, Bruce

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions! If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

Share and Save:

Your Questions Answered #6 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on April 8, 2010.

Your Questions Answered #5

Richard Clark — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:30:55 +0000

We’re back with our first roundup of your questions for 2010. In this article, we’ll be covering a range of topics including sections and sectioning, the element, scaling video, and a proposal for a element.

Headers and sidebars

Ad asked:

Hello,

I have 2 questions:

1. If I have my main navigation above the masterhead would best practise be having the nav tag inside of a header tag with the h1 and h2 in a hgroup? Or should the nav and header tag be separate?

2. I am building a blog in HTML5. It has a blog-like sidebar with articles, contact info and about info in it. Would the best tag to wrap this in be section or aside?

Thank you so much for your time,
Ad Taylor

Placing your

within your

is fine and valid. However, if it makes more sense to leave it outside, then you can do that too. You don’t need to put the inside the

though.

See our articles on

and

for more on this.

Regarding your second question, I would use

(as we’ve done on the HTML5 doctor site) and then use multiple sections within that. Also see Bruce’s article on Designing a blog with HTML5.

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Rich

HTML5 element

Martijn asked:

As you are, according to the slogan, “helping [me] implement HTML5 today,” I thought to bother you people with a spec. related question.

What should an UA do with an image without specified width and height attributes?

The dimension attributes part of the specification keeps stating “if specified” for every rule but doesn’t give any “if not specified”.

The part of the specification defining the img element itself does not state anything of importance about the dimension attributes apart from how the attributes in the DOM should be created by the UA.

Interesting is to note that they have omitted these attributes in all their img element examples.

In the dimension attribute section they go state the following.

– The dimension attributes are not intended to be used to stretch the image.

So we can only use them to make images smaller? This is odd as well so let’s say by stretch they mean to say both expending and shrinking in size. In this case the attributes can only be used for two cases:

1. To state the exact width and height of the image. Something that seems redundant unless not using those attributes means the UA can display the image at any size (which it might, as nothing about this is defined in the spec.).

2. To give a 0 in both attributes. By this I am telling the UA that the image is not to be seen by the user.

Am I missing something or is the specification missing this?

Looking forward to getting your prescription

Kind Regards, Martijn

If no dimension attributes are specified, the browser will leave no space for the image, and once the image has been loaded (after the rest of the page), it will then need to reflow the entire page, as that’s the first time it knows the size of the image. This can cause the content you’re reading scrolling off the page.

If you give the size of the image as attributes in the HTML, the browser will leave space and render the image there once it’s loaded without reflowing the page. On a mobile phone, reflowing the page unnecessarily drains the battery, and users can get vertigo from the page’s text jumping around to accommodate images.

Thanks, Bruce

Section and Sectioning

Yanoo asked:

Hi,

What do you mean when you are talking about “sectioning”? And why don’t header and footer require sectioning?

I think about section and sectioning like about part of something defined. News, comment, page content, sidebar, *header*, and *footer*. Is it bad representation?

Sectioning relates to the headings in some block of related content and defining what is related to what in a hierarchy of headings (

–

). The outlining algorithm can produce a table of contents from the nested

, and

elements.

Headers and footers themselves do not change the outline; a header or footer may contain no headings. If a header or footer does contain a heading, then that heading does come into the outline. See our article on the section element.

Thanks, Bruce

Scaling the Video

Ian asked:

Hi there,

Not sure if this question is an appropriate one, but any help would be really appreciated.

I’m going about updating my video website, chutney.ie, and would love to implement HTML5. I am interested in replicating the scaling effect/style used on the Mozilla welcome page.

Not being overly knowledgeable in this area, I would love to know how to begin — is this effect a Flash based animation, or something that can be achieved with HTML alone?

Again, any nudge in the right direction would be great.

Many thanks,

Ian

I’m not sure how Mozilla did it, but you can use some of the Webkit and Mozilla transforms on the element. For example, you can cause the video to grow on hover — see this example in Chrome, Safari, or Opera. You can also use the :target pseudoclass to initiate animations. Alternatively, you can use a JavaScript onClick event to create the same effect.

You can also combine and to provide some interesting results (laying the over the ). For more on the element and what it can do, please read the Introduction to HTML5 Video on dev Opera written by Bruce Lawson and Patrick Lauke.

Cheers, Rich

We need a tag

John wrote in and proposed a field element:

Hey there. First off thanks for the site. I was excited to find it. I spent a little time on the W3C site and honestly couldn’t figure out how to submit suggestions there. So going to submit mine to you guys and maybe you can pass it on (if it is good) or point me to someone that can help. Ok to the point:

We are getting nice new tags to with HTML5 (nav, footer, etc) to help us create more semantic code. I think what we really need is a field tag — after all what are fieldsets sets of?

Everyone wraps up their labels and inputs with some element. Some of us do this with UL, some people do it with DT/DD, some with DIVs and some people out there insist that a form is tabular data.

We are all just bastardizing these elements because there is no clear semantic wrapper for field elements of a form.

I think you get the point. I’m trying to keep this email short. If you think there is anything to this argument, I have a more detailed summary (with example code) at:

http://john.mirick.me/2009/10/what-is-really-set-of-shouldnt-we-have.html

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!
John

While a field element would be nice — it would stop the argument over how best to mark-up forms — you have to ask yourself whether or not it actually adds any semantic or functional value to an HTML document. Yes, wrapping inputs and their labels in a field would make things easier to read and drop the need for the for attribute on the label (since the relationship can be assumed), but doing so would not be backwards compatible. In theory, we could continue to add for until there is a suitable time to drop it, but again I question the value of such a tag.

The purpose of wrapping form input/label pairs is generally to ease styling. My personal stance is that unless there are case studies showing how such an element can add more value to HTML forms, this proposal won’t make it very far.

Regards, Mike

Got a question for us?

That wraps up this round of questions. If you’ve got a query about the HTML5 spec or how to implement it, you can get in touch with us and we’ll do our best to help.

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Your Questions Answered #5 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on March 2, 2010.

Your Questions Answered #3

Richard Clark — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:52:44 +0000

We’re back with our (semi) regular round up of answering readers HTML5 related questions. Right, let’s not mess about any longer and dive straight in with the questions.

Multiple use of tags

Daniel Davis asked:

Dear Doctor,

Just a quick confirmation please.

Am I right in thinking that nav, like header and footer, can be used more than once in a single page? For example, surrounding a menu at the top of the page and surrounding next/previous buttons at the bottom.
Come to think of it, is it fair to say that all tags except html, head and body can be used more than once?
Thanks in advance, doctor.

I’ll be back soon about my dodgy knee.

You’re correct all the elements you mention can be used more than once a page. If you see this article about the header and this about the footer – they show that you can use them multiple times on a page. Also you don’t really need html, head or body tags, as all browsers will assume them anyway but it’s also safe to leave them included.

— Hope that clears things up Rich and Bruce

HTML5 + Javascript Client Web App

Girish asked:

Is it possible to create a complete client side application using HTML 5 (it will embed chat clients, stock ticker) + JavaScript, and then bundle is with underlining Firefox 3.5 engine, so that user can install it as a desktop app on Linux, and then it runs in its own window using firefox 3.5 engine. The app will store everything in local storage – like url, usernames etc, and will not interact with any local server.

It would pure HTML5 + JavaScript based client web app which would be packaged, and can be installed or launched from startup scripts.

Or instead of using firefox 3.5 engine, we can use Mozilla Prism to convert it to web app, and then bundle it, is it possible?

Technically it should be possible. Certainly the HTML5 offline applications API (via the manifest) gives you all that ability to create a client side app and it run locally without a web connection.

However, the browser is the problem. Prism might be a good way to deploy this as a standalone app, but I don’t know if Prism is running the latest Gecko engine (or whether that comes with the JS engine, etc) – and even if it does – Firefox 3.5 currently has a pretty severe bug with the offline applications: it doesn’t work!

I have logged the bug with Mozilla and I know they’re working (in fact, I believe they’ve fixed it and are now testing).

The alternative is to use Fluid (a Webkit based app) – but again, that’s only if they have updated to the latest Webkit and thus including the offline applications API (that said, quickly looking at the Fluid site, their in-progress version may have the latest Webkit).

Regarding launch from start up scripts – you could achieve this though the custom scheme handlers (but this is just Firefox IIRC): http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#custom-handlers

Equally, there may be an API that you could exploit via the standalone browser, either Prism or Fluid.

— Good luck! Remy

MIME or DOCTYPE, which one prevails

Pedro Estébanez asked:

Hello doctor,

I have found this site a very good resource for web developers and I thank you for your effort.

Now, my question:

There is a lot of discussion about hot to tell the browser we are using HTML5 or XHTML5 by setting the Content-Type HTTP header. But then I don’t know the true role the DOCTYPE plays (apart from keeping quirks mode from being activated and validation).

For example, if I compose my documents as XHTML with an according DOCTYPE and my server serves them as text/html, why XML mode is not triggered in the browser?

Thanks in advance.

Did you see this article on the site from Bruce? HTML5, XML and XHTML5 and this one from Remy HTML5 Boilerplates.

Also see this (linked in Bruce’s article) for some advice on using the right mime type. http://www.webstandards.org/learn/articles/askw3c/sep2003/.

— Cheers Rich

Outline Algorithm

Mike Taylor asked:

In Section 4.4.11.1 of the current HTML5 spec, the outline algorithm is described–yet it’s not super clear in what ways this is useful to users or developers. It would be great if some more light could be shed on the topic!

Thanks for the awesome blog, btw.

The outliner basically allows you to easily see the heading structure of a site. The outline can then figure out from the heading structure where in the outline it should sit, should you want to only parse a section of the code into another site or page for example. (I realise this isn’t totally clear). Also check out the HTML5 Outliner for checking your work.

Bruce covered it a little bit in his section article – “With very few exceptions, section should not be used if there is no natural heading for it. Check your work in the HTML 5 outiner tool. If you see any instances of “untitled section” that corresponds to a section, you’re probably doing it wrong. (It’s fine for a nav or aside element to be untitled, however).”

We’ll try and cover it in more detail in a future post but I hope this helps for now, Rich.

HTML5 and xmlns

Ad Taylor asked:

I hope this isn’t a stupid question BUT …

If I am using the html5 DOCTYPE and I am still using xhtml syntax do I need to define the xmlns in the html tag (i.e. xmlns=”http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml”)?

Thank you for taking the time to do this.

We said, Not a stupid question, but a simple answer: No!

— Ta Bruce (HTML5 Shrink)

Developing to a changing spec

Sam Rayner asked:

I read the Super Friends Guide to HTML5 Hiccups – http://www.zeldman.com/superfriends/guide/ and it’s worried me a little.

I’ve recently been developing personal projects using HTML5 as I find I learn best ‘on the job’ and wish to become familiar with the new spec by putting it in to practice. However, it sounds like I’ve misinterpreted bits and often used new elements such as footer in the way the Super Friends describe rather than in line with the spec.

I really want to continue enjoying the benefits of HTML5 in my own non-critical web work but it seems I run the risk of having to return to it all at a later date and amend stuff due to changes in the spec.

What do you think the best course of action is? Continue with 5 but keep going back and fixing old projects? – Could become a real hassle.

Continue with 5 and leave non-visual discrepancies as they are (the code may be slightly off but it’s styled fine)? – Goes against all of my natural instincts to do things right.

Return to 4 and use class names as apposed to the new elements for the time being?

I realise this is the risk I take developing with a developing spec but I’m worried if I wait until everything is set in stone I’ll still be using HTML4 years from now!

Thanks a lot,

I understand your concerns with the spec changing from day to day. It’s hard to keep up with (there’s 6 of us and that’s tough enough).

Although I’m sure you’re aware in footers case, its content model has now been changed to allow it to act more like header.

I think essentially you have three choices for your development or a combination of the below currently:

Continue working as you are with new HTML5 elements and change them as the spec becomes more defined
Use HTML4, with HTML5 class names (as you suggested)
Use only the simplified doctype and those elements that will only be benificial in the future or add progressive enchancement (e.g. inline elements such as time.)

Its going to be a while until we can use HTML5 in development projects but in my opinion there isn’t any reason to not use it on personal projects now. You have to judge it on a case by case basis, but whichever parts you do you will be futureproofed to some extent.

— Cheers Rich

HTML5 and Browser Compatibility

A lot of people ask this type of question regularly so here’s a few links that we think are useful.

That about wraps up this round of questions, we’ll be publishing more soon, but in the meantime don’t be afraid to keep asking the doctor about HTML5.

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Your Questions Answered #3 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on October 22, 2009.

Absent Elements and Validation

Richard Clark — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000

We received the below question from Guy Carberry who was wondering what effect changing the doctype on your HTML or XHTML pages to the HTML 5 doctype will have on those elements that are deprecated current draft.

The Question

There are several aspects to consider from this question so lets start by taking a look at Guys question in full.

Jeremy Keith says that we can change the Doctype declaration on XHTML 1.0 syntax pages to and it will immediately become HTML 5.

I'm a bit confused about what that means for the Absent and changed elements and attributes info detailed here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/#absent-elements

"Some attributes from HTML 4 are no longer allowed in HTML 5. If they need to have any impact on user agents for compatibility reasons it is defined how they should work in those scenarios."

So if this is that case, how can you switch the doctype declarations and all be fine?

Thanks for your help,

Guy.

The Doctors Response

In answering the question we will need to break the question down into the following:

Which elements or attributes are deprecated?
Do I use any of those elements or attributes on my site?
How much do I need to worry about validation?
What effect will this have for backwards compatibility?
Can my content be accessed in all my target browsers and user agents?

Lets consider each of these in some more detail below.

1. Which elements or attributes are deprecated?

The elements deprecated (from HTML 4.01) from the HTML 5 specification are: basefont, big, center, font, s, strike, tt, u, frame, frameset, noframes, acronym, applet, isindex, dir

You can find a list of those elements and attributes along with detailed reasons of why they've been removed by reading HTML 5 differences from HTML 5.

2. Do I use any of those elements or attributes on my site?

If your site uses any of the above named elements or attributes you may consider changing them to more semantic elements as introduced in HTML 5. Alternatively you may decide to remove them and use CSS for presentation in the case of or

Guy told use that he works for a large university. The site uses a large number of tags which have been removed from HTML 5 as detailed above. To solve this issue for Guy, I feel he has three options if he wishes to make the site: HTML 5:

Change the doctype to HTML 5 and leave the elements in. (Bear in mind the HTML won't validate)
Change the doctype to HTML 5 edit the elements to become elements as advised by the specification
Do nothing and leave the site as HTML 4.01 or XHTML

It's difficult to be able to advise Guy on which option he should choose without knowing the full extent of the effort involved to implement these solutions or knowing the sites goals and project teams views on validation. Speaking of validation, the whole area is a minefield and it's what we'll attempt to cover next.

3. How much do I need to worry about validation?

While validation is undoubtedly important for your markup and your CSS, in my opinion it isn't crucial to a site. Allow me to explain, we recently received a couple of emails pointing out that this site doesn't validate. While there were some errors that have now been corrected, a primary reason why is the use of ARIA roles in the markup. These attributes currently aren't allowed in the current specification, however there is work underway to make this happen.

To illustrate this point let's look at Google, the search giant. If you look at the source on Google's search pages you'll see they use the HTML 5 doctype.

However, those pages don't validate because they use the and

elements amongst others things that we already know have been removed from the specification. Does this mean that users stop visiting Google? No.

Remember too that the specification is yet to be finalised and may still be changed (thus breaking you're perfectly valid docments), in partnership with this changes to the specification may not immediately take be implemented in the validators. We also need to bear in mind that HTML 5 takes a "pave the cowpaths" approach to development, meaning that the Hixie, et al will look at what authors already do and improve upon it.

4. What effect will this have for backwards compatibility?

Leading on from the point about Google as mentioned previously we know Googles site not validating doesn't matter but is it still backwards compatible? Yes. As far as we know, all the browsers support the tag. It's the validators that don't. If you want to use an antiquated element you can do, the browser will still handle it - it just won't validate.

In terms of backwards compatibility there is no reason why you couldn't start using new HTML 5 elements in your HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.x documents, it could even be described as progressive enhancement. For example, why not include the element? It won't validate but maybe that doesn't matter? The browser will still be able to render video, hence "paving the cowpaths". Having said that if you're going to the effort of including new elements why not go the whole hog and change the doctype too?

5. Can my content be accessed in all my target browsers and user agents?

Again to look at Google, it still renders in older browswers and devices but to all intents and purposes it's HTML 5. Another aspect that the specification defines is that new features should work in or not break in older browsers.

Remy pointed out in a response to Guy that

Remember that the browser is still going to handle this, regardless of whether HTML 5 supports this or not. Just like and XHTML document although doesn't validate with frames, it still renders fine and still supports frames.

So from that we can conclude that browsers will still render deprecated elements or practices.

Summary

To wrap up I think we can answer Guys question by saying yes, changing the doctype will make your site HTML 5, but whether or not it validates is in essence an entirely personal or business decision. Whether this means you are making use of all the benefits of HTML 5's new elements, javascript API's or offline storage is a whole different subject.

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Absent Elements and Validation originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on August 25, 2009.

Your questions answered #2

Jack Osborne — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:39:09 +0000

Since the launch of the site we’ve be welcoming questions regarding the HTML 5 spec through the contact form. It doesn’t matter if you think your question is too <H1>big</H1> or <small>small</small> we’re here to help.

Last month we decided to pull together a post that covered some of the emails that were sent in through the contact page. Since the publication of the last post we have received a lot more questions regarding the HTML 5 spec and have decided that some of these warranted another post.

Content Type

Christian asked:

In checking out various implementations of html5 around the web with a quick “view source”, I find everyone seems to specify content type in the headers like so; <meta http-equiv=”content-type” content=”text/html;charset=utf-8″> even though it’s already a part of the HTTP header.

Does it really need to be in both locations, or can we all cut out that redundancy as long as our servers are specifying the content type appropriately in the HTTP header?

If you take a look at Dr.Bruce’s weblog http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/ you will see that most of the information can be cut out and simplified. As more and more sites make the jump to HTML 5 you will be able to see what elements can and cannot be left out. If you’re interested in checking out more sites then please feel free to visit our sister site HTML 5 Gallery where you will be able to view the source of plenty of sites that are already sporting HTML 5 elements in their markup.

If you’re looking to take your reading even further then Dr. Remy has recently published an article entitled HTML5 boilerplates which should give you more information on the above.

HTML 5 & SEO

Julio asked:

I’m thinking of using HTML 5 in my projects as soon as possible, but I need to be sure that everything will work just as fine as HTML 4. My question is: Google (and other search engines) is already indexing HTML 5 sites? In terms of SEO, will I have any drawbacks?

In answer to your question, yes Google is indexing HTML 5 sites. Between us we run several sites built with HTML 5 markup and none of the Doctors have had any issues with our sites being indexed or competitive on key phrases.

In fact if you look at the source code of google.com you’ll see that their doctype is declared as <! doctype html> meaning it’s using HTML 5! Another site that is part of the Google group, Youtube, has also recently created a mock-up of their layout that can be found at http://www.youtube.com/html5 and this definitely shows that they are thinking about it. One last fact to help settle your nerves, if we’ve not managed to do it already, is that Ian Hickson who is writing the bulk of the HTML 5 spec works for Google so we don’t think you’ll have any problems.

HTML 5 Templates

Klaus asked:

Where can if find HTML 5 Templates?

When this email came in, we weren’t too sure by what Klaus meant so we’re tackling his question with two responses.

For static HTML pages you’d be hard pushed to find a better resource than Remy’s boilerplate explained here: http://html5doctor.com/html-5-boilerplates/

However, if you are looking for some HTML 5 Wordpress themes then have a look at the following:

WebSocket Support

Dave asked:

There’s a lot of features, and I can’t find anywhere that lists current support in major browser versions (and/or with Google Gears). The particular one I’m looking for is WebSocket support

This is a good resource for checking the state of browser support for a particular feature: http://a.deveria.com/caniuse/ Regarding web workers specifically, we’ve come across a library that implements Web Sockets and falls away when it’s available natively.

None of the doctors have used these personally but feel that they will be useful in answer to your question:

Reusing Elements Within Same Page

Daniel asked:

Dear Doctor,
Just a quick confirmation please. Am I right in thinking that nav, like header and footer, can be used more than once in a single page? For example, surrounding a menu at the top of the page and surrounding next/previous buttons at the bottom. Come to think of it, is it fair to say that all tags except html, head and body can be used more than once?
Thanks in advance, doctor.
I’ll be back soon about my dodgy knee.

Yes, for more information please reference this article – http://html5doctor.com/designing-a-blog-with-html5/ and this diagram of a single blog entry (of course, there can be many blog entries on a page) http://html5doctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/html5-article-outline.gif probably.

Other articles that we have already covered on the site – http://html5doctor.com/the-header-element/, http://html5doctor.com/the-footer-element/ and a great article on the http://html5doctor.com/nav-element/.

Learning HTML/XHTML Before Reading About HTML 5

Manuel asked:

Hi, I’m new to this field and I would like to learn HTML.

If I understand correctly, most future web sites will be written in HTML5 (served using the text/html MIME type) and just a few sites will use XHTML5 (served using the application/xhtml+xml MIME type). As a consequence, I will focus on HTML5.

HTML5 can use both the HTML syntax and the stricter XHTML syntax, but since I’m starting from scratch I suppose I could safely ignore the XHTML syntax and focus on the HTML syntax (HTML 4.1/5). Why bother about XHTML syntax in 2009? Unfortunately all modern introductory book/online resources about HTML are focused on the XHTML syntax. Where I could learn the pure HTML syntax without any reference to the useless and distracting (for my purposes) XHTML syntax?

Your best bet would be to get into the good coding practices of XHTML (lowercase tag, always closing tags, etc.) while writing HTML, there are a number of resources on the Internet for learning HTML 4.01 which you shouldn’t have any problems finding. A particular favorite of mine when I was starting out was HTMLDog.

We understand the issue of a number of the resources use the XHTML sytax but as I said above this will get you into good coding habits when writing HTML (particularly as HTML is less strict).

thank you for your quick reply. You won me: I will learn XHTML (from HTMLDog). Just a last question: when in the next future I will make the transition to HTML5 (served using the text/html MIME type) I hope the XHTML syntax validates anyway, so that I will have just to change the doctype of my pages to <!DOCTYPE html>. Right? (My fear is that the XHTML syntax will require a XHTML5 doctype).

This is correct though you won’t get the extra semantics added by HTML 5. For that I suggest you read the articles that appear on the site. If you want to use semantic class naming in your current XHTML I suggest you see the related links after ‘Automated Conversion’ in this post. – http://html5doctor.com/your-questions-answered-1/

There we have it folks…

Another quick round up of some of the more difficult questions we’ve had to respond to over the last few weeks. We hope that you’ll find this article helpful and remember that if you have a question that hasn’t been covered in an article so far feel free to get in touch, you never know, your question might just appear in one of these posts.

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Your questions answered #2 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on August 20, 2009.

Your questions answered #1

Richard Clark — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:59:36 +0000

One week on since our official launch and we’ve been overwhelmed by your response to the site. It’s great to see a large number of you wanting to get involved with the discussion relating to HTML 5 and asking about what you can and can’t do as well as the pro’s and cons of the specification.

In this post we’re going to cover a few of the questions we’ve received that don’t require a full post answer but still need to be addressed. We’ll post more answers everytime we’ve collated a bunch of questions so don’t be afraid to ask, however groundbreaking or insignificant it might be. Ok here we go for starters…

Automated Conversion?

Andy Mabbett wrote to ask:

Are there (or will there be) any automated or semi-automated tools which will take my (valid) HTML 4.01 Strict documents and convert them to HTML5?

While we don’t know about any specific conversion tools for converting to HTML 5 from HTML 4.01. There are several articles (see below) describing how you can name your classes more semantically in preparation for using HTML 5.

A final point on this is that I’m not sure that it would be wise to have a converter in order to move from HTML 4.01 to HTML 5, a machine however clever will not really be able to understand the true meaning of

for example. I’d be interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this though?

When should I start using HTML 5?

James asked us (presumably a little tongue in cheek):

Dear Doctor,

When will I know that it is time to start using HTML5 “for real”? Will there be an announcement?

yours etc,
James

Now I’d love there to be an official annoucement, in fact I might just announce it now! You can all start using HTML 5 today. There I said it, I feel so much better now. Seriously though, there is no reason for you not to start using HTML 5 now in sites you’re developing. I’m not saying that you have to use it religiously, but at you should at least start thinking about it in your development roadmaps. We can see on our sister site that there are a number of sites using HTML 5 “in the wild”. The amount of implementation varies greatly (some including

’s around their

elements for styling purposes for example) but they have begun to incorporate HTML 5 right now.

Lastly, Molly recently gave a talk at @media which touched upon this subject, she told us that

Implementation trumps specification

which I happen to firmly believe, after all CSS 2.1 isn’t a formal specification yet but almost everyone is using it. If you’re not sure where to start then I suggest taking a look at what browser implementations are currently like, which is where this Wiki from the WHATWG comes in. Hope that answers your question James.

Main Body

Darren asked:

How do I markup the main body of a page, are there tags? Can I serve a SWF Flash file using tags?

Regards Darren

There isn’t a tag (element), the most appropriate element for that would be

, however if only a single article is contained in that area you should use

As for the second part to your question, you *can’t* use a SWF file natively as the source to the tag, or FLV file for that matter. However, for the foreseeable future you’re still going to need to embed flash for video, via nesting the flash within the tag.

First you’ll use the with nested source elements to fall through the different supported codecs. Then when all else fails, particularly for IE, you’ll serve up the flash video via the and combo. This is because IE8 and lower doesn’t support the you’re going to need to fall back on something that works.

Make sure you read Tom’s article about the element, but you should also find this article on Video for Everybody useful to see how to degrade through the codecs.

And finally…

If your question hasn’t been answered in this post or we haven’t got back to you directly then it’s more than likely that we’ll be covering it soon in a more detailed post so be sure to check back or subscribe to the RSS feed for all future articles.

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Your questions answered #1 originally appeared on HTML5 Doctor on July 6, 2009.

HTML5 Doctor » Questions

Your Questions Answered #10

Footer with sections

vs. Flash (security and copyright)

HTML5 tags inline?

Offline + Storage

Correct markup with blockquote

Got a question for us?

Related Posts:

Your Questions Answered 9

Offline viewing on requests

Question about dragging

About the href on any element

W3C Validator for the element

Headings

. However, if you’re splitting the article into sections, then you could use an

each time. See our article on the section element for more. Thanks, Tom

Got a question for us?

Related Posts:

Your Questions Answered #8

Your Questions Answered #7

Your Questions Answered #6

s, audio codecs, microformats, post bylines, and the element.

s

as appropriate. I hope that makes sense! Bruce’s article on the section element touches on this, and we also hope to talk more about document outlines in the future. Cheers, Rich P.S. Multiple

s in HTML4 are perfectly legal, but seldom used.

Audio Codecs

hCards

Article bylines

How to use with a date in astrology

Got a question for us?

Related Posts:

Your Questions Answered #5

Headers and sidebars

4. What effect will this have for backwards compatibility?

5. Can my content be accessed in all my target browsers and user agents?

Summary

Related Posts:

Related Posts:

About the `href` on any element

W3C Validator for the
element

.

However, if you’re splitting the article into sections, then you could use an

each time. See our article on the section element for more.

Thanks, Tom

as appropriate.

I hope that makes sense! Bruce’s article on the section element touches on this, and we also hope to talk more about document outlines in the future.

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. Multiple